Sep 6, 1998 22:24 from SportsCenter
OK.  I missed the show Friday night (ended up getting sick, dammit), but from
what I am reading in here, we have a little controversy regarding policies and
procedures.
 
From what Dan pointed out in the last post, it seems as if performers are
pushing the bar a little bit too much, to the extent that they are now, in
Friday's case, 1) spilling cream corn on stage and not cleaning up afterward,
hence damaging the space, and 2) using No Shame Theatre as a means to break
University policy, as well as Iowa law, and hoping the audience sees it as
theatre.
 
Because of this, No Shame Theatre may be close to being without a home, should
this kind of activity continue.
 
Now, I know that this is No Shame Theatre, an amateur theatre in which
individuals are encouraged to go on stage and perform anything they want, but
it looks like more restrictions are in order to add to the three main rules.
 
Right now, all we have is:
        1)Pieces must be original.
        2)Pieces must be under five minutes.
        3)You can not damage the space in any way.
 
I'm thinking that Greg knew these rules, and did this piece anyway, even though
it broke the law, because it was in the confines of the three rules posted
above.
 
As for Chris, well, he should have known better.  But I still think he should
do pieces that are less graphic in nature.  I mean, I am still in shock over
his "fucking the baby" piece last year.
 
But anyway, my point is this.  I believe that the rules of No Shame theatre
need to become more specific as to the things performers can and cannot do,
such as not doing anything that would not be lawful in the real world.
 
Example: There was one performer last year who did a piece while standing on an
American flag which was on the floor.  I may be wrong about this, but he could
be charged with defacing the flag of the USA, or something to that effect.  I
know I was offended a little bit about that.
 
So, in closing, I think that the board of No Shame Theatre needs to think long
and hard about what types of pieces it allows to be performed on stage this
semester.  If they continue to let pieces like the two we have been discussing
happen, NST will be without a home.  And that would be devastating to all of
the performers, such as Dan and Mandi, who work each week to give you pieces of
wit, thought, and humor.
 
Of course, that's my opinion.  I could be wrong.
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Sep 6, 1998 22:45 from Alice From Hell
I think SportsCenter is in the right church, but wrong pew.
Yes, Chris DID help to clean up the mess.
Yes, the rules DO need to be more specific. No Shame is to test boundaries, is
it not? If you don't want people testing it to the fullest extent, put in more
rules, preview the scripts and hold the right to turn down scripts that seem
inappropriate for the venue.
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Sep 6, 1998 23:34 from Dan
The whole point of No Shame is to let everybody do what they want on stage. In
the ideal No Shame world, there are no piece guidelines and nothing stands in
the way of the artists' expression. Obviously, No Shame cannot function without
a few rules to ensure its continued existence; hence, the three rules posted in
this forum ad nauseum. We don't pre-read the pieces and pick and choose which
ones are performed for two reasons: One, we don't consider it our right to
determine what has artistic merit and what doesn't. Two -- and in my opinion,
this is the more important one -- we trust the performers not to violate the
oft-stated rules. Everyone who performs at No Shame is a cogent individual
responsible for their own actions. We have neither the desire nor the ability
to function as censors for the behavior of performers. The scripts exist for
the light booth and for the archives, and when you start prereading them it's a
slippery slope to filtering out the performers you don't like. That's not the
way No Shame works. It operates on trust.
And, for the last time, I don't give a rat's ass if Chris cleaned up
afterwards. He consciously exposed the stage deck to substances that could and
did damage it. He was aware of previous performers who had behaved similarly
and been reprimanded by the board. He disrupted the flow of the show and showed
considerable disregard for his fellow performers.
Alice> There are rules for No SHame that, while not stated explicitly, are
tacitly assumed. One such rule is that, in the context of No Shame Theatre, all
laws of the state of Iowa are still in full effect. The idea that NS can
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Sep 6, 1998 23:56 from Alice From Hell
How do you know he's underage? Did you card him?
How could Chris ruin the stage with food products?
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Sep 7, 1998 00:17 from BenZBoy
I would stop going to No Shame if one of the rules banned free speech
ie. No Flag Defacing
I thought the whole point of No Shame was to allow free flowing, censorless,
even shameless ideas.
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Sep 7, 1998 00:44 from Publius
There is no law against flag defacing at this time.  There is a move in
Congress to amend the Constitution to allow such a law, but there is no such
law at the current time.
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Sep 7, 1998 09:53 from Carolyn
NS has been very careful in the past to avoid getting into a postition of
needing to censor material.  There have been concerns when laws have been
broken, but short of that, NS has tried to be really hands off in terms of
content.
 
In the past, the NS board has also banned performers who broke their rules.
(Whitewolf can probably provide more details than I.)  I believe that one
fellow was banned for an entire year from performing after dropping powdered
sugar from the grid, in the middle of a piece about cocaine.  Another fellow
smoked pot onstage, and I think he was banned for some length of time.
 
NS being allowed into B when a show was going on is a relatively new
phenomenon.  (We might have Megan's influence to thank for that.)  In the past,
NS was kicked out of doors or into the lobby when a set was up in B.  The
department could certainly revert to those rules, which would have an even
greater effect on NS since more productions are done each year in B than were 5
years ago.  If faculty heard about the corn incident so quickly, I think the
board would be justified in taking measures to try to prevent any damage.  That
could mean a number of things, including banning performers who damage the
space--or developing a more specific policy about what will happen to folks who
damage the space and announcing it in advance.
 
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Sep 7, 1998 11:26 from Fanky Maloon
Breaking the Law:
This is actually a fair sized can o worms when you get down to it.
It's illegal to be nude in public, you realize.  Unless, from what I understand
, it's for the sake of art.  So then...can one have an open container and/or
drink whilst underage...for the sake of art?  I doubt it.  Though if one could
do such, I'm going to have to investigate the possibility of murdering the
people I despise the most in an artistic fashion, so that I could get away with
it.  ;)
 
I personally had a bone to pick with the sketch from last semester in which
Stangl/River hurled porn into the audience.  Mostly on the basis of that being
a damn good way to get No Shame in trouble if word got out about it, especially
if said magazines got into the hands of minors.  Can't be distributing it to
them legally, etc.
 
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Sep 7, 1998 11:43 from Babbling Wombat
I thought it was only illegal to be nude in public if it was arrousing to the
nudist?  So if you run around like a limp noodle, or if you're of the non-male
persuasion, running around without leaving a trail, then it is legal.  But
then, I'm not a law major, nor do I play one on TV.
 
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Sep 7, 1998 11:07 from Alethe
Greg Wicklund is 17, or if he had a birthday in the summer months he is 18. he
does tech work in the department, that is how we know he is underage.  This
also another reasonhe should know university policy abou tno alocohol or drugs
on stage (props, people, put weak tea in a glass bottle for christs sake).
Though everyone keeps saying it, i don't thinkpeople really want to sit through
20 minutes of common sense rules.  yes, people are  pushing boundaries and we
are saying no.  If anyone has any questions or concerns about the rules, they
could simply ask, otherwise they must take responsibility nd face the
consequences of their actions.  We don't like to enforce rules, but when events
interfere with safety of perfomers, audience or no shame as a general entity,
then we will.  Honestly, can you say that Greg was making an artistic choice
that would have been negated had the cans been filled with weak tea instead of
beer? No.  Can you say that we are taking away chris's rights or stifiling his
creativity by asking him to spread out newspapaers across the stage floor where
he intends to spil cream corn? NO.  We are not talking about content for
the real
cretivity comes in achieving  what you want to
c\achieve within
the boundaries provided ( the boundaries which are there to protect you and
yours and are the rules are open enough to not close off ideas but tight enough
for our purposes to ensure safety. we don't want to discourge anyone, but these
rules come from us ensuring our own survival in the theatre building. they
do
not have to give us a space, but they do and we should do all we can to not
abuse that.)Any dope can open a can of real beer, thats not even using hte
stage to it full comdeic potential, most people couldn't even read the
labelon the can from the audience so  what prupose did is serve t ohave
real beer? NONE.
 An event from last friday, it was announced to not be
backstage because of a drop being painted for a mainstage show, dan  and i
went to get
mops and buckets for a non-damaged space and greg wicklund was back there
mesing around in between pieces.  that was an announced rule, that were
broken, he was not to be there, he wsa also up in the lightbooth bothering
the light board op. , that is an understood rule, you don't do things to
do disrupt the show, the lightbooth is off limits to everyone who is not
on the board. We never announced it but the sign on the door said theatre
personel only, understood rules, broken.
I think performers need to be taking some of this responsibility here.  The
people in the department in general have little to no respect fo rno shame
at
the moment and it is justified, when things like this happen we threaten our
own existance.  3 easy rules.  Come e prepared to meet thoe rules.
And by the way, chris stangl would ahve met the rules had be put newspaper on
the floor around the table, as he intentionally missed the table.  It was aprt
of the joke, the first vomit dirtied the fork, the second he puked over the
table to miss it,there was  no plastic sheet on the floor was there?  He
did
not come
prepared,creamed corn and jelly was all over the stage floor- hthereby
rendering it damaged, he broke the rules.
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Sep 7, 1998 11:55 from Alethe
the nudity law Babbling wombat refers to is the the law that is in effect ofr
public performance and has been aannounced at no shame before and will be
re-announced any time you want it ot be in case it ever becomes unclear again.
Fanky>  ABAout last years porn incident, we have that same issue as you do, but
even more concretely you jeopardize the safety of the audience whn hurling
bound peiodicls at them.  So in effect this is Chris stangls second time
breaking that rule.
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Sep 7, 1998 13:19 from Alice From Hell
He intentionally missed the table? How do you know this?
And have anyone on the board have actually talked to Greg or Chris about
Friday's performance?
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Sep 7, 1998 14:12 from Dan
Yes, he intentionally missed the table. First of all, the amount of creamed
corn and various other foodstuffs that he spewed covered far much more area
than the piece of plastic he laid out. Secondly, the first joke was that he
dirtied the fork and the second -- that he missed the fork and did not dirty it
-- was entirely dependent on him not hitting the fork and therefore not hitting
the table and instead hitting the floor. Finally, whether he meant to or not,
he put himself in a situation where he _did_ dirty the floor, andif it was
accidental then all it means is that he failed to take sufficient precautions
to avoid breaking the rules.
Whether the board discusses any matter with a specific performer is between the
board and the performer. We would consider it a breach of confidence to
publicize any dealings we have with anyone on a personal level. They can talk
about it all they want, but I for one won't.
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Sep 7, 1998 14:18 from Dan
Those of us who already have authority problems and find it painfully ironic to
be in any position of leadership really feel like asshole's when we spend all
this time talking about rules, so I'm going to try (pray) to get the discussion
back to Friday night's performance. So. . .
My favorite pieces of the evening were Mandi's "Canada" and James' "I Love My
Mother." Mandi's because even the best poetry is hard to pull off at No Shame,
and I feel her piece succeeded. The key, in my opinion, was having a narrator
that regularly referred to herself -- creating a nice monologue tone that is
probably the best way to get poetry to fly on the No Shame stage.
I dig James' piece because it was a comic work that wasn't in the "sketch
" format. In may opinion, No Shame provides comic performers a unique
opportunity to abuse the multi-generic format. You can pretend to be doing
overwraught drama and take things in another direction -- something you can't
do in a strictly sketch comedy- or stand-up- environment. Sketch's are all well
and good, but there's a lot more you can do with the No Shame (^sketches)
forum.
On that note, I really feel that Chris and Jamal could be doing more. Their
piece Friday night seemed to be pretty much the same as the ones they've
performed in the past. Same characterization, same
bizarre-accident-of-some-sort coupled with allusions to sexual deviance motif,
same sketch format. These things were funny the first couple of times, and they
still have merit when they stand alone, but when you're part of an audience
who's already seen the body of their work, the sketches get old. I feel like
Chris and Jamal are sufficiently talented to use the forum in new and
interesting ways. They just aren't. The usual caveat about me being no great
mind either applies here, but gentlemen, you're running the risk of slowly
becoming hacks.
On a lighter note, I really appreciate the technical precision and general
smoothness of George's Millenium piece. Nice timing. Of course, I can't abide
by the rest of us looking lazy because of his memorization, but we'll let it
slide.
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Sep 7, 1998 16:46 from Publius
Y'know, I don't often go to No Shame (I enjoy it when I do), but there is an
intermediate position short of taking up a lot of performance time announcing
rules.  The audience doesn't really need to know the rules, only the writers
and performers need to know them.  So what you COULD do is print up forms in
advance with the rules on them (you'd still want to keep them short and
simple), and just make each writer sign one when s/he turns in the script, as a
condition of being allowed to participate.  Then you would be on rock solid
ground if someone broke a rule and it seemed necessary to ban them for a period
of time, and you could point out to the faculty that you informed people in
advance of their obligations, and have taken appropriate action against
offenders.
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Sep 7, 1998 16:54 from King Of Kale
Well, one thing about No Shame though is that the audience are the future
performers. It helps to know the rules in advance before you already have a
piece written up, so you don't end up practicing when you should be studying
and then not being able to do it anyway.
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Sep 7, 1998 16:45 from Frogczar
Okay look,
I personally thought that stangl's piece was rather less graphic then his "sex
with the baby" piece and quite redeemingly funny. To add to this stupid fray of
posts about "damaging the space", I was there and in no way did he do anymore
then what has already been done at No Shame before and no one made a stink
about it then. What gives? he even put down a piece of plastic before he
started? and when did creamed corn become concrete cement that "cannot be
removed"? I was always under the impression that No Shame rules said no
DAMAGING the space, or its occupants like setting something on fire or breaking
something beyond simple cleanup. True, there may be certain aspects of lights
that tend to display baking properties (namely the performers), but not
cementing some creamed corn irreversibly to the floor. The piece was funny, it
was within the rules, no one got hurt, end of story. IMHO.
I do not like maybe for performances of No Shame either, its too big and its
really hard to hear things at all, it in fact detracts more trying to hear
people perform then any sort of "delay" that cleaning up things might have.
Theater B is No Shame's Theater.
By the way, thanks to everyone who came, gotta have an audience, for there to
be a show!
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Sep 7, 1998 16:56 from Publius
But it isn't necessary, especially if we are talking about taking a significant
amount of time. You can deal with that problem by making an announcement at the
begining:  "We'd love to have your participation in the future; there are
flyers at the entrance which state the rules, please pick one up if you're
interested."
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Sep 7, 1998 17:17 from Army Ant
I suspect there will be more people there next week.. at least I know a bunch
of people who attend regularly that were gone for labor day weekend
festivities.
 
Having a more specific set of rules for the performers (and enforcing them)
would be a start, though I suspect that most of the people are already aware of
the rules, and I doubt anyone seriously believes that NS somehow grants them
immunity from university, state, and federal laws.
 
Dan> 20,000 kW?  damn..
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Sep 7, 1998 17:27 from Dan
One kilowatt of power output per lighting instrument, and average of 20
instruments shining on any given area of the space during a mainstage show,
20,000 very good reasons why Dan is glad he's not a lighting designer.
I guess the point here is that the board construes "damage" to the space as any
condition that requires maintenance activities on the part of the board or
anyone else beyond that which is usually required at the end of a night. In
other words, if we have to do anything beyond putting the chairs back and
turning out the lights -- for example, mopping the stage -- then a performer
has damaged the space. Hell, the lights and the chairs are replaceable; that
doesn't mean that dropping a spotlight onto the front row of seats doesn't
count as damage.
In my opinion, the reason we don't have a long list of highly specific rules is
that No Shame operates on energy. The longer we read announcements and
submission rules, the lower the energy level gets at the top of the show. If it
makes everybody happy, I'll be specifying that spraying foodstuffs or any other
liquid, semi-liquid, staining or powdered substance that creates any sort of
special cleaning situation is considered damaging to the space. This is goofy
and it doesn't create a positive atmosphere at the beginning of the show, but
if it has to be said once publicly to clear things up, then so be it.
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Sep 7, 1998 17:48 from Alice From Hell
for example, mopping the stage -- then a performer
has damaged the space.
Since when, Dan?
I went to most of the No Shames last semester, and there were SEVERAL pieces
that required mopping up afterwards, and no one said boo.
Oh, and by the way, Mandi's pieces are NOT suited for stage. I've said it time
and time again. Good content, but her delivery is in the same tones every
single time.
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Sep 7, 1998 18:49 from Alice From Hell
To clarify my last post, it is in my opinion that Mandy's pieces are not suited
for the stage. They are fine written pieces, but they are not stage material.
I did not say they are not worthy; I said that they are not suited for the
stage.
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Sep 7, 1998 19:01 from Alice From Hell
You know I really fear for No SHame.
The head of the board now consists of people who make a big deal out of a
little mess, and one who can't take a lick of criticism on her own works.
Something tells me this forum is going to be filled with a lot of bitching from
these two.
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Sep 7, 1998 19:04 from Army Ant
Yeah, I'm familiar with stage lights.. I was just teasing dan for saying 20,000
_kilowatts_.  With that much light, well let's just say you wouldn't have to
worry about the performers damaging anything.  They'd spontaneously combust
upon walking out on the stage.  ;)
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Sep 7, 1998 19:33 from Fanky Maloon
AHEM.
I am continually concerned about the "State" of No Shame, and I was hoping to
get something out of the forum that would lead me to make some sort of
judgement about how things this semester are looking.
So far, I have been able to get only a wee bit of this valuable information,
since almost NO ONE is discussing the actual pieces and how it struck the
audience.  Which, please note, are really what will determine whether or not No
Shame does well, gets larger audiences, gets new performers, etc.
 
From what I've read so far, George apparently did one of his best No Shame
pieces, Dan had an ass kicker, Chris and Jamal and Mandi did what sounds like
is par for the course for them - love it or hate it, Chris O. / his troupe did
a respectable if not glamorous start, and Greg Wicklund both flopped and
offended.  Any more reactions to actual pieces?
 
And because I haven't mentioned it yet, I'm in full agreement:  Mabie theater,
for a "regular" no shame size crowd, bloweth goats.  If the night was "decent"
by most counts, it probably woulda been pretty damn fine in B.
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Sep 7, 1998 19:45 from Dan
Sorry I didn't catch the 20 grand kilowatt thing. When your eyeballs melt out
of your head, you know it's good theatre.
Alice, if you feel No Shame is going in a bad direction, perform and change it.
If you are in a position to say that another person's work has no place on the
stage, use your sense of what makes good theatre to create something yourself.
Most importantly, if you feel the No Shame board has a negative effect on NS in
general, send me >Mail and tell me about it. When I read in a public forum that
you have grave concerns about the composition of the board and the behavior of
its members, it makes me wonder why you didn't bring these concerns to my
attention earlier. If you want to improve No Shame Theatre, perform, write me
messages telling me what a prick I am, do something positive to change things.
If you just want to bitch to no real effect, keep doing exactly what you're
doing.
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Sep 7, 1998 19:54 from Alice From Hell
Bring these concerns to your attention earlier?
The season just started Friday!
I bring up my concerns here, and you just roll over them instead of actually
using common sense.
Whether or not I perform there has nothing to do with other people's
performances. Why you think it does is beyond me.
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Sep 7, 1998 21:32 from Dan
On that note, what does everybody else think of the pieces Friday night? Was
James' mother piece funny, or am I just paintin
g with all the doors closed? Was George cool, or was jhe just polished? Why was
my first piece boring in so many places? Why was the violent bowel movement
sketch so incredibly funny in my apartment and so painfully unfunny onstage?
My leg itches. Did this start right after my trip to Thailand, or was it like
that before?
Discuss.
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